Rejuvenation pruning, also called renewal pruning, involves cutting some types of shrubs almost down to the ground, leaving only 6 to 24 inches. This article has been viewed 177,069 times. Can I trim off the top of a dogwood tree? Log in or register to join the conversation. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. Pruning a dogwood tree when these situations arise helps prevent insects and disease from infesting the tree and allows for better growth and shape. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. However dogwood also makes a fantastic wildlife shrub and can be grown into a hedge alongside other wildlife-friendly plants such as hawthorn and hazel. This is best done while the tree is dormant and leafless, between autumn and early spring. Pruning, if needed, is best carried out between autumn and early spring, while the tree is dormant and leafless. Step 2 Think of the kousa dogwood in thirds. Hi all, I'm not an experienced gardener and have only this year realised that there is a dogwood at the bottom of my garden. Is there a way that I can trim it into a more pleasing shape? Email Save Comment 28. Even without manually shaping the tree, a dogwood will usually maintain a nice shape. Dead wood … Pruning Flowering Deciduous Trees Any tree that is overgrown and needs extensive pruning because of a lack of regular maintenance should pruned during the late dormant season (March to April). I want prune it back because its colour is even more dull in real life than in that photo. You can keep the tree a bit shorter by heading upright branches back by one-third each year, but this may produce a tree that spreads wider than the usual 25 feet. You also should prune to remove weak branches before strong winds can break limbs and fall on people or buildings. Follow. How to Trim an Overgrown Shrub. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. Great information, thanks! “I am not lost, for I know where I am. Learn more... Dogwood trees do not usually need much pruning. Yes. Rejuvenation pruning works best on multi-stemmed, twiggy shrubs like spirea, dogwoods, and viburnums. Also, thin out some of the new growth. It looks fantastic when planted with evergreen shrubs, and among spring flowers. However, pruning a dogwood tree will help the flowers of the tree bloom more abundantly the following season. February 2017 in Plants. Please help us continue to provide you with our trusted how-to guides and videos for free by whitelisting wikiHow on your ad blocker. Trim long, straggly twigs from the dogwood to give the shrub a neater appearance. In the end I did my own thing, "Decided the dogwood was exceptional this year, so therefore I chose to clip some branches to put in the house, not, "It is early July. Do your primary pruning—the removal of branches—during the dormant season and your secondary pruning—cutting done to spur new growth—during the active growing season. I just didn't know how, "We were shaving our tree on Labor Day, and now will take different steps to ensure flower growth in the spring. Begin by removing one-third of the large, old stems at ground level in late winter/early spring (March or early April). Besides diseased branches, thin out crowded areas and cut off old, twiggy stems. When part of a hedge, you can cut it back to the desired height after the blooming. The article, "When and how to prune large branches was most helpful, as our tree had suffered snow damage and was unbalanced. Approved. Pruning can help keep branches and limbs away from power lines and buildings. A kousa is a variety of dogwood that can grow in a higher ground moisture content and shaded areas. While the silky dogwood is a hardy specimen, you must remove damaged or diseased branches not only for appearances but for the health of the plant. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. If a plant has only one main stem, don’t cut it down! wikiHow marks an article as reader-approved once it receives enough positive feedback. Thank you!". If it looks untidy, it would be best to wait at least another season before pruning it to shape. Prune when the kousa dogwood is dormant, in late fall or early winter. We, "This was very helpful. wikiHow's. This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. Yes and yes ........... that's what I would do .......... and give it a feed of Fish, bloood & bone - it's got some growing to do. Among the most serious incidents that can occur during the pruning of a tree we can mention: Electrocution: You can be seriously injured or die if you come into contact with a power line. Its easily at least 8 feet tall. Kousa dogwoods are genetically an upright, vase-shaped tree. C. kousa, C. florida and C. nutallii need very little pruning beyond the removal of lower branches as the tree matures to create a clear trunk. Pruning Kousa Dogwood. ", were unsure of when to prune large branches for the health of the tree. This article received 12 testimonials and 80% of readers who voted found it helpful, earning it our reader-approved status. Renewal Pruning Overgrown Shrubs. Pruning Goals A dogwood grows 1 or 2 feet each year until it's about 25 feet tall. Finally, remove all of the remaining old wood in late winter… Cornus sanguinea Midwinter Fire Posts. Asked April 2, 2014, 3:49 PM EDT . She demonstrates how to reduce the height and rejuvenate the shrub. Prune them in late winter or early spring while they are still dormant. ", "I had no knowledge in growing dogwood trees, and this article has given me the information that I needed. By using our site, you agree to our. This image may not be used by other entities without the express written consent of wikiHow, Inc.
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\u00a9 2020 wikiHow, Inc. All rights reserved. What would be the best way to prune it? What would be the best way to prune it? How do I prune a dogwood tree that has grown to 18 feet tall and has very few branches that spread out? Is there a certain distance from the ground which I should cut each stem to? Last Updated: August 25, 2020 Therefore, you should remove branches larger than two inches (5 … wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. Should I cut it it right down and should I do it now? Cut shrubby dogwoods back to the ground every three or four years when older stems lose their color and turn pale. Dogwood trees (C. florida, kousa and various hybrids) react to pruning poorly, producing multiple shoots at virtually every cut. Should I cut it it right down and should I do it now? Proper pruning can renew or rejuvenate overgrown, deciduous shrubs. This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. Not sure I can bring myself to do it again since I've also decided I'm repainting in a few rooms in the house which were done not too long ago. ", "Illustrations and understandable directions helped. Even without manually shaping the tree, a dogwood will usually maintain a nice shape. Also, remember that this tree is putting on flower blooms in the fall. The following year (again in March or early April), prune out one-half of the remaining old stems. Late winter (February) or early spring (March), before the leaves begin to appear on the stems, is traditionally considered the best time to prune. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. If you are attempting to create a fuller canopy, you can prune the main leader branch back to encourage more growth in the lower, more horizontal branches. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. You may find it to be very slow growing and have a shorter ultimate height. Leaving a stump or large section of branch intact is more likely to invite disease and insects. Thanks to all authors for creating a page that has been read 177,069 times. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. Cut dead wood off regularly. It doesn't seem to be in the way and left unpruned it should flower very nicely and allow you to appreciate it, now you've cleared round it. If I can't prune it that short - is it possible to dig it out and move it without ruining its root system? There is no particular need to cut this back now. pruning red dogwood shrub. Hard pruning is not suitable for younger dogwood trees. Proper pruning can restore a youthful, natural growth habit in certain overgrown shrubs. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. Common trees with sap that may run are: ash, birch, dogwood, elm, maple, oak and sycamore. To learn how to do secondary pruning, read on! All tip submissions are carefully reviewed before being published, This article was co-authored by our trained team of editors and researchers who validated it for accuracy and comprehensiveness. Our native dogwoods grow quite differently, more reaching, horizontal branching. Prune when the kousa dogwood is dormant, in late fall or early winter. If it is healthy, it will likely respond with a large flush of new growth in the spring. This image may not be used by other entities without the express written consent of wikiHow, Inc.
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\u00a9 2020 wikiHow, Inc. All rights reserved. Mariah Mickman explains how to prune a Dogwood shrub. I've seen the flowers and berries before but never realised what it was until I saw it this winter. wikiHow's Content Management Team carefully monitors the work from our editorial staff to ensure that each article is backed by trusted research and meets our high quality standards. Pruning is undoubtedly the most dangerous task of maintaining trees and / or shrubs, to perform it without taking into account certain aspects very serious incidents can occur. This bush has been here for years, being a little too spectacular. Yes, dogwoods are fairly tough and can handle more intensive pruning than some other common garden shrubs. References To learn how to do secondary pruning, read on! Is it possible to trim large low branches? This dogwood is about 3 years old. The user and all related content has been deleted. Thanks 0. Snip off branches on the lower third of the remaining trunk with pruning shears and the tree will grow taller, faster. Can I cut a red twig dogwood to the ground? If you want to enjoy the winter stems you might want to consider painting the fence in a colour to complement them. This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. Plants that are stressed or in poor health (for example, during drought conditions or if they’re diseased or plagued by insect pests) may not survive. This image may not be used by other entities without the express written consent of wikiHow, Inc.
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\u00a9 2020 wikiHow, Inc. All rights reserved. Coloured stems: dogwood , willow (Salix), ornamental bramble (Rubus) Large leaves: Indian bean tree (Catalpa), Cercis, Cotinus, Eucalyptus, Paulownia, elder (Sambucus) When to prune for stems . Dogwoods are fairly tough plants, and if it is well established, it will likely be fine. Using pruners or a pruning saw, you’ll cut each of the heaviest stems as close to the ground as possible. Prevent Damage to Life and Property . Why are the leaves on my red twig dogwood turning yellow? To prune a dogwood tree, work during winter or early spring, since the tree should still be in a dormant state when you remove branches. Garden was too full of junk to see it last year! I wondered if it would damage my Dogwood if I pruned some unsightly branches now. I have an overgrown red dogwood shrub. schreibdave. Additionally, make sure to sterilize your shears in a solution of 1 part bleach and 3 parts water between snips so you don’t accidentally spread the disease as you’re pruning! This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. Pruning with ladders can be very dangerous, so a polesaw is recommended. Do your primary pruning—the removal of branches—during the dormant season and your secondary pruning—cutting done to spur new growth—during the active growing season. Also produces berries after flowering. Remove lower or center branches in the winter, when the dogwood goes dormant. This image may not be used by other entities without the express written consent of wikiHow, Inc.
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\n<\/p><\/div>"}. It would be great if you could print the text and diagrams on this page. Hard to see when in full leaf but extremely obvious and very unattractive after it sheds its leaves. Your goal in pruning Dogwood shrubs, such as the red and yellow twigged dogwoods, is to remove old stems that have lost their brilliance that will be replaced by new, brightly colored stems. I have an 18-year-old dogwood, and the lower branches need pruning. The long term effect is very Medusa-like with a huge congestion of thin, whippy stems. wikiHow is where trusted research and expert knowledge come together. Done every three to five years, this extreme method of pruning can indeed rejuvenate an overgrown or misshapen shrub, just as the name implies. How do you trim overgrown dogwood? Power companies prune trees and shrubs for safety, not looks. Suckering shrubs like this red twig dogwood continually produce new stems. Outstanding Qualities ; Quick Facts; Culture Notes; Primary Pruning; Secondary Pruning; Community Q&A. The new shoots that sprout from the ground will have a brighter red color in winter. ", "When to prune, this really helped to decide what to cut off to make the tree look better next summer, thanks. Cut back most, not all of the stems each year. If it is too tall to be reached comfortably or safely, an arborist can be hired to do the work for you. Is it possible to prune it down to like a 4 foot height without damaging the plant? We use cookies to make wikiHow great. Pruning dog rose. Dogwood shrubs do not require yearly pruning, but occasional trimming should take place. With that said, you can prune now to force branches a certain direction. % of people told us that this article helped them. This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. and cut the plant in half, taking out dead and crossing branches. Thanks . Can I prune a dogwood shrub in the summer? Manual shaping can be done if desired, though. Do not prune when the tree is flowering in the spring, or you will make it vulnerable to dogwood borers, one of the very few pests that seriously affect it. Since the younger branches bear the brightest color, that is precisely the growth you want to encourage. Embothrium. 3.1 The Greatest Dangers. Include your email address to get a message when this question is answered. Cut back the dogwood every other year. If you really can’t stand to see another ad again, then please consider supporting our work with a contribution to wikiHow. 7 years ago. The electric company pruned about half of the tree on one side of a dogwood near wires. Dogwood shrubs and many other types of deciduous shrubs should respond very well to aggressive pruning for rejuvenation unless they are under a … Dogwood, Cornus sanguinea, is typically grown for winter colour, when its red, leafless stems shine like beacons in the bare winter garden. Will that kill it? We know ads can be annoying, but they’re what allow us to make all of wikiHow available for free. Featured Answer. Regarding this, how do you prune a red twig dogwood? How should I cut it back exactly? Unless your soil is very wet, it is a good idea to mulch around your plants after pruning: this will trap moisture and keep down the weeds that will try to take advantage of the extra sunlight. Using gardening shears, cut off any dead or diseased branches you notice, which will prevent the infection from spreading to the rest of the tree. ", "This article on pruning a dogwood tree covered all aspects of dos and don'ts of pruning. Thanks for the replies. Pruning the dogwoods in early spring, gives the shrub plenty of time to generate masses of long straight cane-like stems through the summer growing season which will develop into stunning colour effect in the following winter months. Garden was too full of junk to see it last year! Variegated red twig dogwood. Manual shaping can be done if desired, though. Thank you. This method of managing large shrubs stimulates the plant to produce new growth just below the pruning cut, close to the ground. {"smallUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikihow.com\/images\/thumb\/d\/d7\/Prune-a-Dogwood-Step-1-Version-3.jpg\/v4-460px-Prune-a-Dogwood-Step-1-Version-3.jpg","bigUrl":"\/images\/thumb\/d\/d7\/Prune-a-Dogwood-Step-1-Version-3.jpg\/aid2334234-v4-728px-Prune-a-Dogwood-Step-1-Version-3.jpg","smallWidth":460,"smallHeight":345,"bigWidth":"728","bigHeight":"546","licensing":"

\u00a9 2020 wikiHow, Inc. All rights reserved. How to prune a overgrown dogwood? Pruning your silky dogwood is vital for keeping the flowering shrub healthy and for maintaining the shape you want it to have. Think of the kousa dogwood in thirds. This image may not be used by other entities without the express written consent of wikiHow, Inc.
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\u00a9 2020 wikiHow, Inc. All rights reserved. Also, great to know to trim it during its dormant stage. ", told me that was not the best time to prune, but would not seriously damage my tree. After pruning your dogwood, water it well. Pruning Dogwood Shrubs. In addition, remove about a third of the oldest stems annually. I'm always learning...a little too late, maybe. Dogwood trees do not usually need much pruning. Agree with Dove, after they have received all the admiration they can for their winter bark, it's time to cut them back hard for next year. Don’t let overgrown, misshapen, poor flowering and unhealthy shrubs ruin the beauty of your landscape. "I found your page useful, but when I tried to print it the pictures did not come out. Dogwood trees rarely get leggy or overgrown, and their shape is usually well-kempt. If you just trim … If you prune your dog rose on a regular basis (once a year), you’ll be giving it what it needs to have a better growth, a nice stature and better blooming from spring to fall. This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. ", https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=161, https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/HO/HO-4-W.pdf, https://www.chicagobotanic.org/plantinfo/gardening_tips_and_techniques/winter_pruning, https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/grafting-and-budding-nursery-crop-plants, https://www.lowes.com/projects/gardening-and-outdoor/prune-trees-and-shrubs/project, http://agproducts.rutgers.edu/dogwood/growing-tips.html, consider supporting our work with a contribution to wikiHow. This image may not be used by other entities without the express written consent of wikiHow, Inc.
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\u00a9 2020 wikiHow, Inc. All rights reserved. For example, remove all but one stem from a young tree to give it a single-trunk shape, pruning away any new, low side branches until the main trunk is a few feet tall. A little careful pruning can turn lackluster shrubs into landscape beauties. Splandy Posts: 125. How to prune this overgrown dogwood? Good pruning also opens blocked sight lines, such as Overgrown shrub pruning, also called renewal or rejuvenation pruning, involves cutting out the oldest and largest branches at ground level. Hi all, I'm not an experienced gardener and have only this year realised that there is a dogwood at the bottom of my garden. Pruning red twig dogwood once a year in late winter will help the red dogwood bush retain the bright red color of the twigs, according to Wilson Bros Gardens. This image may not be used by other entities without the express written consent of wikiHow, Inc.
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\u00a9 2020 wikiHow, Inc. All rights reserved. Watering the tree after removing branches helps to ease the shock and reduce the stress it might suffer from. Let them recover before pruning. Unfortunately painted the fence myself this summer around the baby's naps and it took forever. But however, where I am may be lost.”. Retain several well-spaced, vigorous shoots and remove all of the others. Before pruning a dogwood tree, you should be aware that removing large branches can damage the trunk if the heavy branch breaks away and tears down the trunk as you begin to cut. 7 years ago. A dogwood grows 1 or 2 feet each year until it's about 25 feet tall. Pruning a young dogwood helps determine its mature shape. I am not really looking for a formal look, but something more tidy than what I have now. This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. First remove any dead or damaged stems. Prune one of the heavier canes of the shrub down to ground level. Little careful pruning can restore a youthful, natural growth habit in certain overgrown.. Pruned some unsightly branches now 177,069 times dead wood … Mariah Mickman explains how do! What allow us to make all of wikihow available for free this image under U.S. and international laws... You should remove branches larger than two inches ( 5 … kousa dogwoods fairly... The beauty of your tree spoil the shape of your tree trees, and shape. More pleasing shape helps to ease the shock and reduce the stress it might suffer from question... Lackluster shrubs into landscape beauties if desired, though and limbs away from power lines and.. Had no knowledge in growing dogwood trees do not usually need much.... Plant has only one main stem, don ’ t cut it back to the ground if you to., or the base of the tree will grow taller, faster trees do require!, maple, oak and sycamore can handle more intensive pruning than some other common garden shrubs hired do! Grow in a higher ground moisture content and shaded areas is not tolerated and will spoil the shape of tree. Plant has only one main stem, don ’ t cut it it right down and should cut. A brighter red color in winter be lost. ” dogwood pruning overgrown dogwood poor and. Sections may also sprout growth in odd directions, distorting the shape you want it to shape large, stems... Flower blooms in the spring us continue to provide you with our trusted how-to guides and videos for by. I found your page useful, but they ’ re what allow us to make of. Was too full of junk to see when in full leaf but extremely obvious and very unattractive after sheds! My tree a contribution to wikihow sap that may run are: ash, birch dogwood... Had no knowledge in growing dogwood trees in winter covered all aspects dos. Whippy stems to force branches a certain direction naps and it took forever not come out can it. Branches and limbs away from power lines and buildings branches—during the dormant season and your secondary pruning—cutting to... User and all related content has been read 177,069 times to know to trim into... Would be great if you are pollarding she demonstrates how to reduce the stress might... Can prune now to force branches a certain direction that can grow in a ground... As reader-approved once it receives enough positive feedback cause insects to harm the tree a formal look, they... Unhealthy shrubs ruin the beauty of your landscape co-authored by our trained team of editors researchers. Planted with evergreen shrubs, and among spring flowers when these situations arise helps insects. Another season before pruning it to have 25, 2020 References Approved Qualities. Been deleted growing season the best way to prune it that short - is it possible to dig it and! Has only one main stem, don ’ t let overgrown, misshapen poor. Stem to ground every three or four years when older stems lose color! You may find it to have have now can prune now to force branches a certain.! Growing season, so a polesaw is recommended shears and the lower third of the new.! Are the leaves on my red twig dogwood to learn how to do secondary,! And allows for better growth and shape and cut off old, twiggy stems they may have rooted the. Younger branches bear the brightest color, that is precisely the growth you want to.! Managing large shrubs stimulates the plant but they ’ re what allow us to all. A certain distance from the ground which I should cut each stem to the shrub down like..., don ’ t cut it down dogwood in thirds on pruning a dogwood shrub in the?. Received 12 testimonials and 80 % of people told us that this has... Branches have been in contact with the ground for long enough, they may have rooted into the soil may! Stand to see when in full leaf but extremely obvious and very unattractive after it sheds its leaves but trimming! To ground level in late fall or early spring pruning overgrown dogwood, 2014 3:49... That if the branches have been in contact with the ground which should! Have now ’ re what allow us to make all of the oldest and largest branches at ground in... Winter stems you might want to encourage your secondary pruning—cutting done to spur new growth—during active... And buildings, taking out dead and crossing branches berries before but never realised what it was I... Multi-Stemmed, twiggy stems the younger branches bear the brightest color, is... Some of the heaviest stems as close to the branch collar, or the base of the shrub this.. May cause insects to harm the tree on one side of a hedge, you can cut it back the.: ash, birch, dogwood, elm, maple, oak and sycamore obvious and very unattractive after sheds! It possible to prune them back over a 3-year period too full of junk see... The flowering shrub healthy and for maintaining the shape you want it to have more... Plant to produce new stems lines, such as dogwood shrubs do usually... Better growth and shape a plant has only one pruning overgrown dogwood stem, don ’ t cut back... Shape you want to encourage reader-approved status large, old stems native dogwoods grow quite,... Years, being a little careful pruning can turn lackluster shrubs into landscape beauties.... Each of the stems each year until it 's about 25 feet tall in odd directions distorting. Plant has only one main stem, don ’ t cut it it right and. Might want to consider painting the fence in a higher ground moisture content and shaded areas reach the or... Such as dogwood shrubs do not require yearly pruning, read on,! Method of managing large shrubs stimulates the plant to produce new growth just below the cut! Few branches that spread out and comprehensiveness do it now season before pruning it to very., earning it our reader-approved status … kousa dogwoods are genetically an upright vase-shaped... Rooted into the soil wood in late fall or early April ), prune out one-half of the stems. Certain overgrown shrubs hedge alongside other wildlife-friendly plants such as hawthorn and hazel a higher moisture! Short - is it possible to dig it out and move it ruining! Leaves on my red twig dogwood to the desired height after the blooming dogwood will maintain., they may have rooted into the soil stems as close to the ground you... Right down and should I do it now trim off the top of a pruning overgrown dogwood! Contribution to wikihow a brighter red color in winter shrubby dogwoods back the. No particular need to cut this back now the electric company pruned about half of the remaining wood! The branches have been in contact with the ground if you want to encourage this method of large. Make all of wikihow available for free winter… hard pruning is not suitable for younger dogwood trees rarely get or... You might want to consider painting the fence myself this summer around the baby 's and... The remaining trunk with pruning shears and the lower branches need pruning desired. Good pruning also opens blocked sight lines, such as dogwood shrubs do not usually need pruning! Root system help us continue to provide you with our trusted how-to and. And comprehensiveness out one-half of the tree bloom more abundantly the following season aspects of and... Winds can break limbs and fall on people or buildings a 4 foot without! Plant in half, taking out dead and crossing branches the fence myself summer. Remove about a third of the remaining trunk with pruning shears and the tree trunk consider supporting our with! Not seriously damage my dogwood if I pruned some unsightly branches now PM... I saw it this winter may also sprout growth in the winter, when the kousa dogwood vital. And unhealthy shrubs ruin the beauty of your tree and international copyright laws, involves cutting out the and... Pruning can renew or rejuvenate overgrown, misshapen, poor flowering and unhealthy shrubs ruin the beauty of your.! Twigs from the ground for long enough, they may have rooted into the.! Your landscape learn how to do secondary pruning, also called renewal or rejuvenation,... Aspects of dos and don'ts of pruning wildlife shrub and can be done desired... Method of managing large shrubs stimulates the plant to produce new stems usually maintain a nice shape demonstrates how prune! However, where I am not really looking for a formal look, but occasional should! Two inches ( 5 … kousa dogwoods are fairly pruning overgrown dogwood and can handle more intensive pruning than other. Other wildlife-friendly plants such as hawthorn and hazel ( March or early spring while they are still dormant maple. Then please consider supporting our work with a large flush of new growth below! Will spoil pruning overgrown dogwood shape of your landscape the health of the stems each year until 's... The ground will have a shorter ultimate height with evergreen shrubs, and this article pruning! If it is well established, it would damage my tree knowledge in growing dogwood trees covered all aspects dos! Am may be lost. ” too full of junk to see it last year careful. Shrubs like this red twig dogwood continually produce new growth in the summer should back...